The Workers Behind Amazon’s Historic First Union Explain How They Did It
Chris Smalls, founder and president of the Amazon Labor Union, celebrates with workers following their vote to unionize. (Yana Paskova / Washington Post via Getty Images)
Staten Island Amazon workers endured thunderstorms, racism, and arrests to organize in break rooms, bus stops, and grocery aisles to win their union — and one of the world’s most powerful companies couldn’t stop them.
An interview with CHRISTIAN SMALLS, ANGELIKA MALDONADO and MICHELLE VALENTIN NIEVES
by Eric Blank
At the end of March, workers at Amazon’s JFK8 facility made history: they voted in favor of a union. Much press coverage of their stunning win fails to capture the two-year road to victory, from Amazon’s public firing of organizer Chris Smalls in 2020 to the corporation’s vociferous anti-union campaign. But now that Amazon Labor Union (ALU) organizers have taken on a multibillion-dollar company and won, they’re eager to share their winning strategies with workers looking to unionize.
In a conversation with Jacobin contributor Eric Blanc (and guest Bernie Sanders, whose remarks can be read here), ALU organizers Michelle Valentin Nieves, Chris Smalls, and Angelika Maldonado offer their perspectives on the tactics that helped them build solidarity, created a thriving culture of organizing, and convinced their fellow coworkers to support the union. Throughout the discussion, hosted by Jacobin and the Emergency Workplace Organizing Committee, they stress that these tactics can be applied successfully to workplaces across the country, lending to the creation of a much bigger movement. The full discussion can be watched on Jacobin’s YouTube channel.
EB
A lot of people are very inspired by what the ALU did, but they don’t know how to start. Most of us aren’t in unions. What is one thing you would tell someone who is considering organizing their workplace? What organizing task do you see as essential?
CS
We had that issue at the beginning of our campaign. We had to educate a lot of the workers about what a union provides and represents, because they didn’t know. It was no fault of theirs, because since the 1930s, unions have been on a downfall due to the inflation of productivity and the way the laws are in this country.
Unionizing in this country has dropped to less than 10 percent. Educating your coworkers is step number one. I don’t suggest going online and going to a simple internet website. You’ve got to have a face-to-face conversation with somebody in the union to really understand what unions provide, and what the difference is when you’re unionized.
I tell the workers in Staten Island that, once they get on the bus, they should ask the bus driver. They are in a union, and I guarantee they love their job, they love their benefits. This applies to anybody in the country. Find somebody in a union and have a conversation with them. And not just one conversation — it takes several conversations. There are a lot of questions to be answered.
I guarantee that when you talk to a union rep or a union member, they can answer those questions for you. I promise you, at the end, you’ll probably make the decision that you want to join one.
AM
Chris said everything. Let your coworkers know how important a union is. Try to find people in union families and have them explain exactly how certain people and jobs benefit from unions. And let them know that no matter where you work, you deserve to have certain rights that other workers in other companies do.
That’s very important, because in some places, people believe that they aren’t entitled to higher pay or certain benefits. That’s because of the conditioning in their workplace. So it’s very important that they find an outlet where they can learn and research information about how to get their own union started, and information to organize their own union.
MVN
There’s definitely strength in numbers, and in making sure that you build some kind of a friendship with your coworkers, especially if you are in an establishment long term. It’s important that everyone gets along, that everyone’s on the same page, and that you all have the same goals, as far as the organization goes.
Try to recruit as many people as you can. Try to talk to as many people as you can, all the time — if you’re on break, if you’re in the restroom, if you’re outside drinking coffee, if you’re at the bus stop, if you’re getting out of the car and you see someone. It can be any random place. Just try to bring more people in, because there is strength in numbers.
EB
What were the specific techniques you used to bring people together at JFK8? Where did you talk to people? How important were the techniques you used? People can read online about your barbecues, TikTok videos, and conversations that you had inside the building. What is one thing that worked for you that you would suggest others do?
CS
Food is the way to the heart. It’s as simple as that. If you want to bring people together, you feed them. It’s like any Thanksgiving meal. We made Thanksgiving several times through the year, and not just on Thanksgiving. We had potlucks, barbecues, bonfires. We rejoiced over food, and it wasn’t all rejoicing; it was more about conversations. It didn’t just have to deal with organizing. We made a space for workers to feel comfortable.
Once you get workers feeling comfortable, you have their attention. They look forward to seeing you every day. They were like, “Aw, man, where’s the bonfire at? Where’s the ALU at?” when we weren’t there. When you start to get that type of feedback, you know that you’re doing something correctly.
That’s why we fed our coworkers as much as possible, and we still continue to do so — because we know food is the way to the heart, and Amazon lacks that. They’re the Grinch who stole Christmas, and we’re the good guys.
AM
Definitely the food. When I joined in October, the ALU team there had tons of barbecues. They were giving out pizza. The day I joined, I sat outside the tent and had a slice of pumpkin pie and some snacks.
Food is definitely the way to the heart. Also, being considerate of the different cultures at Amazon. We targeted different ethnicities and nationalities, and we took into consideration that we all came from different places. At one point, we were serving African fried rice. One of our team members got empanadas from a Spanish restaurant. Having these different ideas that targeted different cultures, whether we were part of that culture or not, definitely let the workers know that we were thinking of them in more ways than one.
When we had these potlucks, there was music, too. We made it enjoyable and fun while getting the information out about how the ALU wanted to benefit us as the employees of Amazon.
MVN
Organizing, for me, was fun. I enjoyed it very much. I tried to single out people that nobody else was really speaking to — someone really quiet, who you’d see not speaking to anyone. Single out that one person. There are people with disabilities; there are people in wheelchairs; there are people that can’t see very well. There are all types of people. I would try to talk to those people, too, because sometimes they’re ignored, especially by management.
Inside of Amazon, there’s a huge disconnect between management and the workers. That’s across the board, with every single worker. There’s a huge disconnect where you feel like you’re not even in the same building with your manager. There’s no conversation, no “Good morning, how are you?” There’s no sense of a work culture inside the building.
You have to create your own work culture. For me, it was easy and fun, because I’d been at that facility for three years. I already knew a bunch of people, and I was a familiar face. You’d see me coming in the building, or at the building, or you’d see me in the break room. You’d say, “Okay, this is a familiar face. I’ve seen this woman many times, and she’s with the ALU. She’s been here for a while.”
For the most part, people would feel comfortable speaking to me when I went up to them and tried to speak to them about the union, and tried to see if they were for or against it. I wouldn’t try to be too forceful, like, “You have to vote yes,” because that was what management was doing — they were telling everyone to vote no.
I didn’t want to come off with that same kind of energy. I wanted to be like, “Let’s discuss it. Whether you’re with it or not, let’s discuss that, and why. What can we do to try to persuade you?”
EB
Where did you have those conversations?
MVN
Everywhere!
EB
It sounds like it might be scary having those conversations in the warehouse. Were people afraid of talking? How did you break through that fear factor?
MVN
People were definitely scared about talking, but again, we have our own work culture separate from management. Like I said, there’s a disconnection there. There’s a lot going on. I’m speaking about people who have been there long term, who have been with Amazon over a year, because Amazon creates an environment where they don’t expect you to last over a year.
If you make it over a year as a Level 1 associate, it’s like a miracle has happened. They really don’t expect you to last that long. They’re like, “I give this person a year, maybe a year and a half tops, and they’re out of here.” When you’re there for two or three years, and you’ve somehow found some way to flourish in that kind of environment, the managers don’t realize it, because they’re so disconnected.
We would speak everywhere — in the staircase, in the elevator, in the parking lot, in front of the building, on the bus, at St George Ferry Terminal, because I take the bus to St George and get on the Staten Island Railroad. There were people I saw at random places in Staten Island. I saw people at Costco, on Forest Avenue, outside of the facility. The conversations happened everywhere, at any time.
EB
At Amazon, like most workplaces these days, there are a lot of divisions. People are fractured along a whole different range of lines. What were the divisions you saw, and how did you overcome them? Can you describe a specific conversation where you had to work on somebody for a while to get them to come over to the union, and what it took to move them?
CS
Amazon tried to make this a racial thing in the beginning. They had one of their union busters, Brad Moss, come from Alabama. He was one of the first ones we exposed, because he talked to a group of workers — predominantly white, with one Hispanic woman — and made racial remarks about the ALU. He called us a bunch of thugs from outside the building. He called us a bunch of Black Lives Matter protesters with no experience. He tried to make it a racial thing, and he said he came from Alabama, and the union was no big deal.
Amazon ran with that. They don’t stop the rumors once they start, I can guarantee that. There’s nobody in there saying, “No, that’s not true.” Once the rumors start to spread, it’s like high school. They get to everybody through word of mouth, real fast. We know that they tried to paint us as people with no experience, who came off the streets, trying to steal everybody’s money with union dues.
It got to a point where they told everybody I was going to buy a Lamborghini. They even made a sign with an ALU decal on the side, with somebody driving this convertible, which I guess was supposed to be me. Michelle and Angelika can speak to this, but they had signs in there that were very racist. They had union-busting signs that had people wearing their hats backward, darker colored than the other cartoons that they used. It was very racist, what they were trying to do. And they’re still continuing to do it, because the union busting hasn’t stopped.
AM
Basically, one of the ways that we tried to bring everyone together — although it wasn’t an easy task — was to create our own culture within the ALU. Everyone thinks that we have tactics worth thousands of dollars, but we were just being ourselves.
Connecting with the workers, we would sit outside, at times, by the bus stop and play loud music. We would connect with the young workers that way. I remember one time, I sat down and talked with an older woman inside the building — I call her Mom now — and brought her tea. We connected with the workers in any way we would treat our own family.
That’s the way we got through the age gap, even with different cultures, with organizers who spoke different languages. There weren’t hundreds of us — there were only about fifteen, toward the end. It was a very tedious organizing ordeal. However, what the ALU did and how we created our own culture worked for us.
It worked for us in a way where if you didn’t hear about the ALU, you’d still seen who we were, and when we approached you, you knew that we weren’t a third party. You knew that the captive audience meetings were just lies, and whatever we were telling you wasn’t untrue information. If anyone was to give out untrue information, it was Amazon. It was just building our own culture, and that’s how I see it.
EB
It seems like a lot of core ALU organizers are pretty young. Is that true? Why is that the case, if so? And how were you able to connect with older workers?
AM
The average age of an ALU member is twenty-seven years old. However, we have people who are fifty years old, maybe a little bit older, and people who are twenty years old. The reason for that is that a lot of people wanted to get involved with the ALU, but because the pay is not as good as Amazon makes it seem, a lot of older people have to provide for their families.
With that, there was only so much they could do. Sometimes they would come in the break room and help talk to their coworkers, but as far as coming in on their off days and dedicating the time we were dedicating, it was very difficult for them. I’ve spoken to many of my coworkers who said, “I really want to organize, but I have a second job. I don’t have anyone to babysit my child. I have to take care of my grandmother.”
Another thing is that if these people need to maintain their second jobs, we still have to fight so that one day, they won’t need a second job as much as they do now.
EB
Michelle, can you add in on divisions, whether about the racism you were subjected to or about youth?
MVN
The captive union-busting classes were so racist that it was out of this world. The figures they had — let’s say a manager was a bright yellow or orange figure, then the ALU representative would be a dark purple or a dark blue. I saw that on the screen, and I was really shocked.
You have to understand that this completely backfired on Amazon. You’re showing us these racist images, but the majority of your workers there are . . .
CS
Thirty percent Hispanic, thirty-five percent black.
MVN
When you show something racist like that to people of color — when people see me, I’m a very fair-skinned woman, but I do identify as a woman of color, first and foremost, and I do have people in my family, like my brother, my uncle, and cousins, who look like Chris and Angie. They don’t look like me, as far as complexion is concerned. But that doesn’t mean that I don’t identify as a person of color.
We’re fighting so our kids grow up in a society where they’re not subjected to the exploitation of a big corporation like Amazon.
They would look at me with a weird look on their faces. It’s like — you don’t get it. Do you not understand that this is racist? Do you not understand that this is morally wrong? There were so many things going on, to the point that I got thrown out of a few of the classes because the anger would come out. It was really disgusting, and I didn’t even know what to say about how racist it is.
As far as the environment in Amazon itself, it’s very, very diverse. It’s very divided as far as race. As far as the captive-audience classes went, they were really horrendous.
EB
You were confronted with divisions, and each one of you had a lot of conversations. It sounds like you were talking to people all the time. Can each of you describe a conversation where you were able to move somebody who was a hard nut to crack?
Chris, Amazon tried to demonize you, as you just described. How did you break through with people who might have been skeptical or hesitant?
CS
I definitely had to flip a couple of people. They’d just hear all these things about me through the grapevine, without speaking to me. After every conversation they had with me, they’d walk away saying that whatever they’d heard wasn’t true. I’m a nice, respectable guy. I respect you, I’m calm, unless we’re partying or having fun. That’s what I wanted to show people: that I’m a real human being, just like everybody else.
I’m an Amazon worker, just like yourself. I got hired as a picker. I was a process assistant, more on the management side for several years. But at the same time, I never forgot where I came from. That’s what people who worked underneath me, who organized with us, who have been around with me from day one — like Derrick Palmer — can speak on, how I was as a supervisor in the building. I’m the same way now. I respect everybody, no matter what position or level you are.
I think that helped debunk a lot of things that they heard about me, and about the union itself. Amazon tried to tie me, as a human being, to the union. They didn’t realize that every decision we make is a democratic decision. I’d never make a decision without consulting with the team and voting on it — as far as the budget, food, doing demonstrations, a rally. We have several meetings every week where we discuss these things and how we want to organize.
I like to have the workers come and challenge me and ask me tough questions. That made me stronger as a leader and as an organizer. I told people they’d go through a honeymoon phase. When you get hired by Amazon, you’re excited; it’s a big-name company. You see all these commercials out. The job looks great. The benefits you get on day one. It’s always better than its competitors.
But then — it could be two weeks in, two months in, two years — you realize that something needs to be done, because this is not what you expected. Whether it’s management getting on you, management not getting on you and not even having conversations with you, getting overlooked for promotions, being on station ten to twelve hours and not being able to cross-train, being cross-trained too much — where they use and abuse you and throw you anywhere, because it’s business needs — all of these things come to a wall, and you hit that wall when you’re like, “Enough is enough.”
Sometimes we’d have people walk past us for two, three months. Angie was probably one of them. It took her a while to finally say, “Let me have a conversation.” And it wasn’t just her. A lot of workers were like that. For two or three months, they wouldn’t take a flier. They wouldn’t take a pamphlet. They wouldn’t say hi. But then, that one day they realized management wasn’t on their side, they’d come right out and sign up. And that’s all I waited for as well.
EB
Angie, you got involved in October of last year. How were you won over? What was a specific organizing conversation you had with somebody that you’re proud of?
AM
I vividly remember leaving work early one day because I was exhausted. The ALU vice president had come up to me, and I had just missed the bus. Every time I miss the bus, I think about how when I first started in 2018, Amazon promised us shuttles. I had missed the bus, and Connor came up to me. He gave me the whole thing about the ALU, and what was going on at the time.
At the time, when I first signed up, the ALU was doing signatures. He said, “We’re about to turn in our signatures. You’re going to be one of the last batch of signatures. Help us make history.” I was like, “I just missed the bus! If Amazon had a shuttle, I would be promptly home by now. So yeah, I’ll sign it.” That’s basically how I got involved.
As far as flipping people, for certain days and certain people, the experience is different. There’ll be some people I’ll have a thirty-minute conversation with in the break room, and they’re like, “Everything sounds great. This is what I’m looking for in a union. I’ll think about it.” I say, “I’m here any time you need me. I’m always here.” They’re like, “Okay.” And then I’ll see them the next day, or a week later, and try to give them a newspaper or literature to update them — and they’ll say, “Girl, keep that paper. I’m voting yes!”
Sometimes, you don’t know because not everybody expresses their emotions in the same way. You’re thinking maybe a person isn’t as convinced as you would want them to be, or they still have concerns, but they’re just not as up front about it as I am.
One time, I was speaking to a guy about my age, twenty-eight, and he was talking about how he was in the military, and he believes a lot of the workers don’t work as hard as him, and that we shouldn’t get a raise, because that would mean everybody would get a raise. He felt he should only get a raise because he’d worked there for four years.
I explained to him how everybody’s role is different, and how we’re not only fighting for Tier 1 employees, but we’re also fighting for Tier 3 employees. He was like, “I’m not really voting for the union.” I said, “I’m right here whenever you want to speak to me.” Two weeks later, we were outside giving out lanyards, and he came up with one of the organizers named Casio and said, “Guess what? I’m voting yes!” I was like, “No way.” He said, “You softened me up a bit, but then I spoke to Casio, and I’m all in now!”
That’s the power in numbers. That’s the power of the different personalities in the ALU. That moment, a week before the election, really made me proud of myself. It made me proud of the organizers that we have.